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Political situation in Belgium

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Political situation in Belgium

Postby Vampyre » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:05 pm

Hello all,

I know this is really off topic, but on the request of Timmahl, I managed to find two interesting articles.

The first one managed to set the background (even I didn't read it all), and the numbers looks a little bit over-exagerated to me, it at least set the historical and geographical background to the situation we are in right now. The article is dating back to 2007, where the crisis really began. It do not take account of the progress made during 2007 - 2011.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2433

To second that article, I also managed to find something quite good in Wikipedia. There are lot of links inside the article, so feel free to click to get more information. But I warn you, even us, belgians, do not understand it all... So, it's quite heavy to read, and there are a lot of party names, which, for me, sometimes get me lost. (I personnaly know what the PS party is, but the explanation get me lost : a socialist and anti-decentralist party in the south (wallonia). Ok, I might understand it, but to someone who never heard of, it's trully difficult).

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–2011_Belgian_political_crisis[/url]

I would also like to correct what I said earlier in another post : We are now #1. The #1 record was Iraq with 196 days without government. Now, we beat that one, and still are without.

Latest news from tonight : we still have one guy trying to create a government. He has negotiations to lead until tomorrow, and after that, he will spend his time writing a report for our king, to let him know if he found a solution and could start negotiations for a government on the basis he laid down. If not, chances are that we will go back to vote...

Sorry, can't get a link active on the second one. Just copy paste without the [URL]
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Boris28 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:07 am

Last news I heard about Belgium was that someone said Politicans wifes shouldn't give them anymore sex so they finaly form a goverment or something like that.
Please correct me if I'm wrong :P
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Timmah! » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:35 am

Thanks for the links! I just finished reading the article from 2007, it was pretty well written and not confusing at all (bar the part with kings :) ). BTW this is the first time i saw the actual map of Belgium with borders between Flanders and Wallonia. Its interesting that in case of Belgium breaking up (however improbable it is), such a big part of Wallonia might want to join Luxemburg. Another funny thing, Belgium coming from Latin Belgica, meaning Netherlands, really did not know that :D
The article is quite one-sided though, it is implying that the main blame for the current situation is on the Walloon part, as they are corrupted and badly managed by the their Socialist party and because of that, Flemish have to subsidise them (i suppose similarly to what West Germany is doing with East Germany since their reunion). Is this really the case? Is the Bart De Wever guy Flemish or Walloon?
Is not Herman for Rompuy president of Europe by now? Or at least he was one of the candidates for that function?

Ok, i try to read the rest, when i come back home. Now back to work :mrgreen:
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Vampyre » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:55 am

@boristhe : no you are totally right :-) Someone once said that.

@ Timmahl : Well, that's the main reason why I put some reserves on the article from 2007. I feel like it has been written by a flemish ;-) The main subject for the moment is called BHV, for Brussels - Halle - Vilvoorde. Halle and Vilvoorde are two cities on the fringe of Brussels. Vilvoorde is mainly french inhabited, and Halle are mainly flemish inhabited. Their problem is that Halle is nearing the wallonia border, while vilvoorde is nearing the flemish border. What flemish people do want is to divide those two cities and connect them to the flemish part. The reason : vilvoorde should be flemish because it's nearing the border, while Halle should be flemish because it's inhabited by flemish people. But, by doing that, and due to the geography of Brussels, doing this would involve that Brussels would be cut out of access to the walloon part. If you would want to go to Brussels, you would have to go pass the flemish part.

Bart de Wever is coming from the right extremist side of population. So, quite dangerous. What he wants ? He wants here above or he doesn't discuss of a government. The walloon part do not agree of course to that splitting. Brussels is the capital of Belgium and should remain "neutral" to flemish or french people. Even now, I'm living in Brussels, and when my parents ask me what brussels would become, I always say : brussels will remain brussels. If belgium do not longer exists, I still will remain a guy from Brussels.

Another point why the french part do not want that splitting is mainly because of past actions flemish people have already undertook. In their own region, they set some rules : to live in a flemish village, you must prove you can speak fluently flemish, otherwise you can't buy a house or live there. This is discriminacy or even worse racism. In the french part, there is no rule such as that one. We are one country and the rules apply to all people living in belgium. Not just flemish people.

So, with those two problem, you understand that Brussels, being inhabited by 80% french people, but during the day 80% of the people inside the city are flemish people (flemish come to work inside Brussels but live outside, while french are working outside, but live in Brussels), cutting Brussels geographically from the french part will only create a flemish part, involving the main city, and all the french people who do not speak flemish (it's not my case, but I know it's a problem for my mother for example) could be thrown away outside of Brussels.

I don't agree with such a splitting. If this goes through the governement and is voted, then Belgium is no longer. And none wants this to happen.

Basically we are there. For those reason, the french part try to find arrangement, but all of them are given a no answer by Bart de Wever, who only wants both of Halle and Vilvorde, to cut Brussels from the french part. Until it is agreed, he do not want to speak. As simple as that.

And yes, Herman van Rompuy is indeed the President of the EU... Nice example isn't it ? We rule Europe, but we don't rule our own land... Sometimes I'm ashamed to be belgian.
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Timmah! » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:42 am

Vampyre wrote:@boristhe : no you are totally right :-) Someone once said that.

@ Timmahl : Well, that's the main reason why I put some reserves on the article from 2007. I feel like it has been written by a flemish ;-) The main subject for the moment is called BHV, for Brussels - Halle - Vilvoorde. Halle and Vilvoorde are two cities on the fringe of Brussels. Vilvoorde is mainly french inhabited, and Halle are mainly flemish inhabited. Their problem is that Halle is nearing the wallonia border, while vilvoorde is nearing the flemish border. What flemish people do want is to divide those two cities and connect them to the flemish part. The reason : vilvoorde should be flemish because it's nearing the border, while Halle should be flemish because it's inhabited by flemish people. But, by doing that, and due to the geography of Brussels, doing this would involve that Brussels would be cut out of access to the walloon part. If you would want to go to Brussels, you would have to go pass the flemish part.

Bart de Wever is coming from the right extremist side of population. So, quite dangerous. What he wants ? He wants here above or he doesn't discuss of a government. The walloon part do not agree of course to that splitting. Brussels is the capital of Belgium and should remain "neutral" to flemish or french people. Even now, I'm living in Brussels, and when my parents ask me what brussels would become, I always say : brussels will remain brussels. If belgium do not longer exists, I still will remain a guy from Brussels.

Another point why the french part do not want that splitting is mainly because of past actions flemish people have already undertook. In their own region, they set some rules : to live in a flemish village, you must prove you can speak fluently flemish, otherwise you can't buy a house or live there. This is discriminacy or even worse racism. In the french part, there is no rule such as that one. We are one country and the rules apply to all people living in belgium. Not just flemish people.

So, with those two problem, you understand that Brussels, being inhabited by 80% french people, but during the day 80% of the people inside the city are flemish people (flemish come to work inside Brussels but live outside, while french are working outside, but live in Brussels), cutting Brussels geographically from the french part will only create a flemish part, involving the main city, and all the french people who do not speak flemish (it's not my case, but I know it's a problem for my mother for example) could be thrown away outside of Brussels.

I don't agree with such a splitting. If this goes through the governement and is voted, then Belgium is no longer. And none wants this to happen.

Basically we are there. For those reason, the french part try to find arrangement, but all of them are given a no answer by Bart de Wever, who only wants both of Halle and Vilvorde, to cut Brussels from the french part. Until it is agreed, he do not want to speak. As simple as that.

And yes, Herman van Rompuy is indeed the President of the EU... Nice example isn't it ? We rule Europe, but we don't rule our own land... Sometimes I'm ashamed to be belgian.



Now the bolded part is really retarded, sorry for the expression. How can they do this anyway? Surely its against some EU anti-discriminatory rules or something... Personally i am bit conservative and not the most politically correct person, but this is something i cannot accept. You can indeed have some rules, the people who move in your city, have to respect, but do not allow them if they do not speak your language? How are they supposed to learn it, if you do not allow to live among you? Its just plainly wrong...

*** Removed due to racist content. Apologies if someone felt hurt... ***

I apologise if i offended someone and hope i did not break any forum rules, so feel free to delete my post if you think otherwise.
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Boris28 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:48 am

Yes please no more racist jokes.
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Timmah! » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:47 pm

boristhe wrote:Yes please no more rasist jokes.


Ok, i am sorry. I am no racist person at all, but this joke for some reason i found damn funny. In the end, i do not think it makes fun as much of black people, as it mocks the hypocrisy and racism of the so called elite class.
Nevermind, forget it.
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Boris28 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:32 pm

Well we all know how British are thinking as they say they arent part of Europe, they only "tolarate it".
So that says everything but also everyone tells today this is the era of ending of British empire. They lose power and importance in the world. Altrought Chinese are gaining it which is scarry also.
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Timmah! » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:32 pm

boristhe wrote:Well we all know how British are thinking as they say they arent part of Europe, they only "tolarate it".
So that says everything but also everyone tells today this is the era of ending of British empire. They lose power and importance in the world. Altrought Chinese are gaining it which is scarry also.


They do still have their "imperialistic" reflexes, i would say...but at the same time do you think that British era going down is such a good thing? I mean alongside the bad (imperialism) there was always their gentlemen culture and they stood on the good guys side - against Napoleon, against Hitler, against USSR (i suppose)...
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Re: Political situation in Belgium

Postby Boris28 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:09 pm

Well what is good and what is bad, to me thats all in some gray shade I dont consider any side that much good or evil "except nazis and hitler".
Something you dont see on tv often is what they did to Irish people and how many Irish people British goverment killed. Google for "Bloody Sunday"

Only thing I really don't like is that USA and EU dont do anything, while China is getting stronger in few years we will be all slaves of the Comunistic flag if they dont do anything. :P But I somehow daubt they can do much except block chinese products.
I just see everywhere new china shops poping up from nowhere with bad smelling chinese ilegaly made products from toxic materials that are made from small poor bloody hands of chinese children, and that truely scares me.
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